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November 20, 2023, Finance Committee Meeting. Minutes

Finance Committee · Record date 2023-11-20 · Record 34fd38fef794995423

Saved text from 4 source pages. Transcription and OCR may contain errors; verify figures and wording against the original. Retrieved 2026-10-15.

Canton Finance Committee                   Minutes Voted on: 12/4/23
                                               801 Washington Street                    Vote: 7-0-0
                                                 Canton, MA 02021




                                                  Meeting Minutes
                                                 November 20, 2023


Finance Committee Members Present: Dan Cole, Dave Clough, Karen Foley, Emilio Mauro, Tim McKenna, Kristin
Mirliani, Reuki Schutt and Cindy Thomas.

Finance Committee Members Absent: Maureen Menconi.

Guests Present:
Ellen Jones, Finance Committee Recording Secretary
Randy Scollins, Finance Director/Treasurer/Collector

Call Meeting to Order: Ms. Thomas called the meeting to order at 6:00 p.m.

Review of the Agenda - Chair Cindy Thomas – Ms. Thomas reviewed the agenda items that included the review of
any outstanding issues related to the Finance Committee Recommendation/Discussions to the Voters. The primary
purpose of the meeting was to discuss Article 1 Motion 2.

Article 1 Motion 2 - Discussion

Ms. Thomas reviewed for the members that the motion the Finance Committee recommended for Article 1 Motion 2
was to have paper ballots for Articles 4, 5, 6 and 8. At the time of the Special Town Meeting (STM) the Moderator
elected under his jurisdiction not to have paper ballots ahead of time. Any motion to do paper ballots that occurs within
the meeting would essentially put into place the 36-hour hold on a motion. Ms. Thomas further stated that in
conversation with many people there was no one interested in a 36-hour hold, including the petitioners. Therefore, the
Moderator proposed two additional motions for this article. Ms. Thomas asked the Finance Committee if they wanted
to reconsider their vote taken on Article 1 Motion 2.

Ms. Thomas shared with the Committee what is being proposed as well as a possible amendment that might be made
on the floor of STM.

The motion made and approved by the Select Board was the following:

That all voters at the time of the vote shall be in a designated voting area and votes will be counted by a show
of hands holding voter cards. If the Moderator is unable to determine the vote result from a show of hands,
votes will be counted by the standard teller process set forth in the by law with the exception that no person
at any time shall be required to stand to be eligible to vote. This motion was printed on the back of all of the orange
voter cards. This is the first motion that the voters will be asked to approve and it will be made by the Select Board.

A proposed amendment to this motion is that if the Moderator is unable to determine the vote result from the show of
hands then the votes will be counted by the teller process as set forth as determined by the Moderator in compliance
with the by law. The Moderator’s intent is if this were to happen is to go to paper ballots to be used in the case where
the Moderator does not think he can fairly determine the vote result.

If Article 1 Motion 2 passes then there will be no need for paper ballots. If the amendment comes forward then there
will be paper ballots just when there is a need to do so to get an accurate vote count.

If Motion 2 amendment does not pass and the original motion does not pass then it would go to a new motion being
recommended by the Finance Committee. If the Finance Committee motion were to pass the meeting would be delayed
for 36 hours.

Ms. Thomas’ recommendation to the Finance Committee is that the Committee reconsider their motion. The Finance
Committee’s original motion was done for a reason to allow for plenty of prep time for ballots, which it did. Because
this motion was made early on in the beginning, the Moderator and the Town Clerk worked extensively over the past
week to put in place a paper ballot process that would be implemented at STM if it is needed. Unfortunately the process



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does not allow for voters that would like to have a more private vote. Ms. Thomas was of the opinion in speaking with
many people, the petitioners and others that there were not many options at the time.

The proposed amendment provided by the Moderator would not require a 36-hour delay of STM.

Mr. Clough confirmed with the Chair that if the Moderator could not determine the result of a vote by a show of hands
then the paper ballots would be used. Ms. Thomas could not speak to the rationale of the Moderator but stated that
that was where things stood with the process.

The urgent issue at the time of the meeting was to see if the Finance Committee would be willing to reconsider their
prior motion for Article 1 Motion 2 and to act on the proposed amendment to the motion.

A motion made by Ms. Mirliani to reconsider the Finance Committee’s previous motion for Article 1 Motion 2
was seconded by Mr. McKenna.

Vote: 7-1-0. Ms. Schutt did not support the reconsideration of the prior vote for Article 1 Motion 2.

The question the Finance Committee was faced with was how to change their motion. Ms. Thomas suggested to take
the amendment and make a slight change to make the paper ballot process only be in place for Articles 4, 5, 6 and 8.
Again, the goal was to take the 36-hour delay rule off of the table.

If the Moderator is unable to determine the vote results from a show of hands for Articles 4, 5, 6 and 8 then the votes
would be counted and the normal procedure would apply to all of the other articles.

Ms. Thomas was unsure if the Finance Committee was unable to withdraw their motion that appeared in their
Recommendations to Voters. The Finance Committee could withdraw their motion if allowed by the Moderator and
have a back-up motion should the Moderator say no.

Ms. Schutt was “troubled by everything” as she thought many of the members were. She is unclear as to what has
really happened.

Ms. Thomas stated that the by-law provides two ways that the voters can go to paper ballots. One of those is at the
Moderator’s discretion before the meeting (which the Moderator chose not to do). The Moderator is using the same
rules that have been applied at other Town Meetings. Ms. Schutt was concerned that in a 10-minute discussion at the
meeting prior to STM would undo all of the work and decisions that were made by the Finance Committee during a
prior four-hour meeting. When Articles 4, 5 6 and 8 are voted on the voters will most likely have to lift their cards so
there would be no anonymity.

Because there would be three separate voting areas during STM Mr. Clough suggested instead of using the show of
hands voting method go straight to the show of voter cards (essentially the paper ballots).

Ms. Schutt stated that she was concerned that the Finance Committee would be “chastised” for overstepping its
boundaries. She reminded the members that the Finance Committee discussed that issue when some of the STM
articles came before them during their meetings. She was of the opinion that some of the articles did not have fiscal
ramifications, but on the other hand all of the articles may have some sort of financial impact. The Town could stand
to lose $250,000 in interest if the tax bills are not mailed on time. The Town would have to use cash to cover expenses
due to the delay in the revenue from the tax collections.

Ms. Thomas stated that the Committee had one option to consider: The standard teller procedure be used for all
articles except Articles 4, 5, 6 and 8 for which votes will be counted by a process set forth by the Moderator in
compliance with the by-law.

Mr. Mauro stated that the members were in agreement that their original motion presented in the Recommendations
was appropriate for the STM however the Moderator is within his right to change things, which is out of the control of
the Finance Committee. He stated that if STM were to end in a 36-hour delay he hoped that people would not think
this was something that the Finance Committee “manufactured” because they did not. This was totally the decision of
the Moderator. Their motion was made on November 1st and there was ample time to reconsider the Moderator’s point
of view. Mr. Mauro respects the Moderator’s decision but the Finance Committee was in agreement that they did not
want to turn all of the attendees back due to the 36-hour rule. Mr. Mauro further stated that he did not want the Finance
Committee to be “thrown under the bus” for actions they took with stakeholders in attendance at their meeting on
November 1. The stakeholders also wanted the option of paper ballots because they too wanted anonymity and to
avoid the possibility of voter intimidation.

The proposed amendment to Article 1 Motion 2 would be more than 30 words. This was provided by the Moderator to
Ms. Thomas. The Moderator would be making this motion from the floor of STM.




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In response to Mr. Clough’s question about the raising of hands and paper ballots, Ms. Thomas stated that the
Moderator had consulted with multiple attorneys and it had been determined that the by-law did not have a provision
for the Moderator to make a decision to use paper ballots at the STM.

Mr. Scollins stated that the Moderator did not want to choose for the voters and wanted to leave the voting method up
to the voters. If the Moderator chose in advance to have ballots prepared that would eliminate the 36-hour wait, but
the Moderator does not want to propose that. If the voters chose to use the paper ballots then the vote would cause
the 36-hour wait.

There was clarification that the “paper ballots” referenced in the motion were referring to paper ballots to be used in the
“teller process”.

A motion made by Mr. Mauro that the Finance Committee offer a new motion for Article 1 Motion 2 that all
voters at the time of the vote shall be in a designated voting area and votes will be counted by a show of hands
holding voter cards. If the Moderator is unable to determine the vote result from the show of hands for Articles
4, 5 6 and 8, then the votes will be counted by a teller process set forth as determined by the moderator in
compliance within Article IV, Section 12 of such bylaws with the exception that no person shall at any tie be
required to stand to be eligible to vote. The standard teller process will be used for all other articles was
seconded by Ms. Foley.

Mr. Clough stated that the motion still does not provide the anonymity that most people had hoped for but it would be
a shame to turn all the voters away and potentially create some sort of voter suppression so he stated he would be in
support of the new motion. Ms. Thomas stated that Mr. Clough’s remarks probably speak for many people.

Vote: 8-0-0.

Article 6 – Independent Investigation into its Select Board and Police Department

The motion that will go forward for STM will be the Finance Committee motion along with their discussion of the Article.
The petitioners would be proposing their motion on the town meeting floor.

Articles 2, 3 and 4

It is Ms. Thomas’ understanding that the petitioners (if allowed to) may be withdrawing Articles 2, 3 and 4.

Ms. Thomas informed the Committee that she has learned that a motion “to defer to Town Meeting” is a problematic
motion because it causes Town Meeting to defer to Town Meeting versus taking action on the motion.

Approval of Minutes – Ms. Thomas suggested a Zoom meeting in the near future to vote on minutes.

Next Meeting Date:     TBD.

A motion made by Mr. Clough to adjourn the meeting at 6:40 p.m. was seconded by Ms. Foley.

Vote: 8-0-0.

Minutes reviewed by: Dan Cole

Respectfully submitted,



Cindy Thomas
Chair, Canton Finance Committee and
Sub-Committee to Review Compensation of Elected Officials




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Finance Committee
                                              Meeting Documents
                                              November 20, 2023

Please note: Some meeting documents may be found on the Town’s website under the Posted Minutes
section (Laser Fiche).


Agenda for November 20, 2023

Recommendations of the Finance Committee to the Voters of Canton, Massachusetts – Special Town Meeting,
Monday, November 20, 2023 at 7:00 pm., Articles 1-8 (16 pages).




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